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Joey Karrigan
Husband of a wonderful wife and MDiv student at Bethlehem College and Seminary.
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John 17:1-5
John 17:1-5
Shared July 9th, 2019; Updated July 9th, 2019
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Main point summary
The Son asks the Father to glorify him with the joy by which he will endure the sufferings of the birth of new creation, the sufferings by which he will give birth to many sons and so glorify the Father [Cf. Heb 12:1-2; 2:10-18; 5:7-10].
Notes
Question: Does Jesus receive the glorification for which he asks? Meaning, does he receive this glorification in order to endure the cross, or does he receive this glorification as a result of enduring the cross? Note (17:1c): Is this a direct reference to the pregnant woman (John 16:21) just mentioned above? Is Jesus indicating that his hour of sorrow and suffering approaches with his death by crucifixion, and is he inferring that he himself is pregnant with the redemption of the many sons whom he will bring to his Father in glory? Question: What does Jesus's glorification entail? He seems to be asking for something from the Father with which he can faithfully carry out the hour that has been set before him, the hour of suffering and sorrow by which he brings many sons to glory: the hour of new birth and new creation. I believe that what Jesus is asking for here is what the author of Hebrews indicates is the means by which Jesus endured the cross, that is, "for the joy set before him" (Heb 12:2). Note: I saw verse 4 as a bilateral, grounding the reason the Father should glorify the Son, because the Son has already glorified the Father in his earthly obedience by carrying out all that the Father has commanded him. Now, the Son seems to be asking for something else from the Father, this glory, by which he can endure "the hour" that has come (I take this "hour" as his suffering on the cross). Verse 4 grounds the request above (17:1d, "glorify your Son") and the request below (17:5, "glorify me in your own presence"). ------ I think the main point of this text is driven by Jesus's request for the Father to glorify him "so that the Son may glorify the Father." The Son glorifies the Father in his earthly obedience, as specified in verse 4. Therefore, Jesus's request seems to be for something by which he can continue in his earthly obedience, namely, his "drinking the cup of God's wrath," his death on the cross, and his defeat of the devil (Heb 2:14-16). I believe that the glory that Jesus is asking for is the joy by which he endures the cross (Heb 12:2). New birth requires suffering, suffering requires joy, and so the Son requests the joy of his Father, the joy by which he will successfully endure and give birth to many sons.
Arc
editing
NT
John 17:1-5
na28
esv
Ταῦτα ἐλάλησεν Ἰησοῦς
[Jesus said these things],
καὶ ἐπάρας τοὺς ὀφθαλμοὺς αὐτοῦ εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν εἶπεν•
m [and] lift[ing] up his eyes to heaven , [he] said,
progression
πάτερ, ἐλήλυθεν ἡ ὥρα•
“Father, n the hour has come;
δόξασόν σου τὸν υἱόν,
o glorify your Son
ἵνα ὁ υἱὸς δοξάσῃ σέ,
that the Son may p glorify you,
καθὼς ἔδωκας αὐτῷ ἐξουσίαν πάσης σαρκός,
[just as] q you have given him authority over all flesh,
ἵνα πᾶν ὃ δέδωκας αὐτῷ δώσῃ αὐτοῖς ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
[ that all whom you have given to him he might give to them life eternal].
αὕτη δέ ἐστιν ἡ αἰώνιος ζωὴ
t And this is eternal life,
ἵνα γινώσκωσιν σὲ τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν θεὸν
u that they know you v the only w true God,
καὶ ὃν ἀπέστειλας Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν.
and x Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
series
ideaexplanation
actionpurpose
actionmanner
ἐγώ σε ἐδόξασα ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς τὸ ἔργον τελειώσας ὃ δέδωκάς μοι ἵνα ποιήσω•
I y glorified you on earth, z [by accomplishing] the work that you gave me to do.
καὶ νῦν δόξασόν με σύ, πάτερ, παρὰ σεαυτῷ τῇ δόξῃ ᾗ εἶχον πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι παρὰ σοί.
And now, Father, a glorify me in your own presence with the glory b that I had with you c before the world existed.
bilateral
Is this "hour" a direct reference to the pregnant woman? Jesus is pregnant with redemption and the many sons to whom he will bring to glory.
What does Jesus's glorification entail? He seems to be asking for something from the Father with which he can faithfully carry out the hour that has been set before him, the hour of suffering and sorrow by which he brings many sons to glory: the hour of new birth and new creation.
The Son glorifies the Father by his obedience in the work of redemption.
na28
discourse
Phrase
John 17:1-5
na28
Ταῦτα ἐλάλησεν Ἰησοῦς
[Jesus said these things],
καὶ ἐπάρας τοὺς ὀφθαλμοὺς αὐτοῦ εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν εἶπεν•
[and] lift[ing] up his eyes to heaven, [he] said,
πάτερ, ἐλήλυθεν ἡ ὥρα•
“Father, the hour has come;
na28
δόξασόν σου τὸν υἱόν, ἵνα ὁ υἱὸς δοξάσῃ σέ,
glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you,
καθὼς ἔδωκας αὐτῷ ἐξουσίαν πάσης σαρκός,
[just as] you have given him authority over all flesh,
ἵνα πᾶν ὃ δέδωκας αὐτῷ δώσῃ αὐτοῖς ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
[that all whom you have given to him he might give to them life eternal].
αὕτη δέ ἐστιν ἡ αἰώνιος ζωὴ
And this is eternal life,
ἵνα γινώσκωσιν σὲ τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν θεὸν
that they know you the only true God,
καὶ ὃν ἀπέστειλας Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν.
and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
ἐγώ σε ἐδόξασα ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς τὸ ἔργον τελειώσας ὃ δέδωκάς μοι ἵνα ποιήσω•
I glorified you on earth, [by accomplishing] the work that you gave me to do.
καὶ νῦν δόξασόν με σύ, πάτερ, παρὰ σεαυτῷ τῇ δόξῃ ᾗ εἶχον πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι παρὰ σοί.
And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
Ταῦτα ἐλάλησεν Ἰησοῦς καὶ ἐπάρας τοὺς ὀφθαλμοὺς αὐτοῦ εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν εἶπεν• πάτερ, ἐλήλυθεν ἡ ὥρα• δόξασόν σου τὸν υἱόν, ἵνα ὁ υἱὸς δοξάσῃ σέ,
καθὼς ἔδωκας αὐτῷ ἐξουσίαν πάσης σαρκός, ἵνα πᾶν ὃ δέδωκας αὐτῷ δώσῃ αὐτοῖς ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
αὕτη δέ ἐστιν ἡ αἰώνιος ζωὴ ἵνα γινώσκωσιν σὲ τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν θεὸν καὶ ὃν ἀπέστειλας Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν.
ἐγώ σε ἐδόξασα ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς τὸ ἔργον τελειώσας ὃ δέδωκάς μοι ἵνα ποιήσω•
καὶ νῦν δόξασόν με σύ, πάτερ, παρὰ σεαυτῷ τῇ δόξῃ ᾗ εἶχον πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι παρὰ σοί.
phrasing
Comments
David
New birth requires suffering, suffering requires joy, and so the Son requests the joy of his Father, the joy by which he will successfully endure and give birth to many sons.
Why does suffering necessarily require joy?  Heb 12:1-2?  If Jesus asking this in his humanity?  If Jesus is God the Son and is experiencing trinitarian Joy how does he need joy of his Father?
Joey Karrigan
The successful endurance of suffering requires joy (or so I think). Jesus was he "who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross" and by result "is seated at the right hand of the throne of God" (Heb 12:2).

Jesus is God the Son, yes, but I think God the Son does things which seem unnecessary for him as God but seem fitting "for righteousness sake" (Matt 3:15: "Let is be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness"). Certain things also seem particular of his humanity. If Jesus is God the Son, why does he so often need to pray? Why does he need to eat?

I also think that God has includes or says certain things in Scripture that are not so much for him as they are for us. For example, this whole chapter (chapters 14-17, I would argue), are not necessary for Jesus to speak out loud. I think the whole of them are for the revelation of who God is to his people. Earlier in John 11:41-42, for example, Jesus specifically indicates just this: "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you have sent me."
David
So do you think that the request for joy is Jesus' humanity?
David
I closed your middle note and its gone.  Also, is manner, means?  Are they not usually participles?
Joey Karrigan
You'll have to find the little circle and click on it to reopen the note. Also, yes, I use "action/manner" as a substitute for "action/means" sometimes because BibleArc does not have a separate relationship there. I don't believe the relanionship requires a participle. I believe the authority with which the Father has endowed the Son to freely give eternal life to those whom the Father has given the Son IS THE MEANS by which the Son has already and will glorify the Father in his obedience. That's why I indicated the "action/means" relationship there.
David
I know the circle but it does not appear to be here since I closed it.
David
So how did you get all three on a single page like this?
Joey Karrigan
Go to "edit or publish this page," then under "modules" add a "text block" and then you can add text freely there. You can also move the modules around so that they appear on the page in a certain order.
David
Joey, thanks.  I originally had/was looking at v4-5 as G or BL but changed it.  I am not certain of my reasons, it may have been because there was no conjunction iva/oti.
Disclaimer: The opinions and conclusions expressed on this page are those of the author and may or may not accord with the positions of Biblearc or Bethlehem College & Seminary.