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Stephen.Choy
My name's Stephen. I am loved by God.
User since 2013
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The Immeasurable Gift of the Gospel
2 Corinthians 5:21
God's Love, God's Salvation, God's Grace, God's Glory.
Ephesians 2:1-10
Christians, if someone wrongs you and refuses to humbly repent, then let him go, because God desires to keep and protect you from his sin.
Matthew 18:15-20
I cling to my Lord who is my Helper, Saviour and Friend.
1 Peter 3:18
We have full confidence in the revealed, illumined and inspired Word of God given to us by the Spirit of God.
1 Corinthians 2
What is more amazing than being set free from sin?  Being set free to Christ, our righteousness and keeper forever.
1 Peter 2:24-25
As those identified with Christ, we are called to live new lives enabled by a glorious God.
Romans 6:1-4
Death in Adam; life in Christ.
Romans 5
If you have been called to preach the gospel, do not relent, because God delights in your ministry.
2 Timothy 4:1-8
Grass withers and flowers fade, but the word of our God shall stand forever.
2 Timothy 3
What does a false teacher look like?  He appears to be godly, but, in truth, he seeks only to steal and devour.  Avoid these wolves.
2 Timothy 3:1-9
Scripture is from God alone.  Let no man claim otherwise.
Galatians 1
Although our sin deserves punishment, the love and grace of God, through Christ, intercede to give us everlasting joy.
Romans 5:1-17
What is our joy?  It is not ourselves.  It is the love of God in Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:6-11
Condemnation follows us in Adam, but Rejoicing is our reward in Christ
Romans 5:1-14
Good News! The life, death and resurrection of Christ is the source of our faith, pardon, justification, and reconciliation to God.
Romans 5:1-11
Rejoice!  God doesn't just save, and God doesn't just promise a future, but He promises His love and help for those who believe now.
Romans 5:1-5
Faith in God to fulfill His promises by grace is the only way by which we can be saved
Romans 4:13-25
Abraham was justified by faith, as are those who follow in his footsteps.
Romans 4:1-12
Who is the blessed man?  He who seeks after the very things of God.  To Him shall be a heavenly reward and satisfaction forever.
Psalms 1
Righteousness is a gift to those who cannot save themselves, and, instead, fall at the cross and confess Christ as Lord.
Romans 3
In God there is no contradiction, for the law condemns self-righteous sinners, but God saves the repentant who believe in Christ.
Romans 3:1-26
Church, set your minds on things above by loving one another as Christ loved you, which is your thanksgiving to God.
Colossians 3:12-17
What is the advantage of having the Law?  To know God's will.  Does the law justify?  No, it condemns.  Simply, the Law is good, we are not.
Romans 3:1-20
God is immeasurably compassionate, so much so that we cannot truly grasp it, and yet, it is exactly sufficient to accomplish His plans.
Jonah 4
God saves us to show us Himself.  Namely, that He is unlike any other and requires our worship through obedience.
Deuteronomy 4:32-40
It is not too late!  Repent and Believe!  He is merciful and mighty, alone, to save.
Jonah 3
When we are in despair without hope of deliverance, look to the merciful Lord who is faithful to save and deliver.
Jonah 2
Obey when God calls.  Reject God and suffer the consequences.  In both obedience and disobedience, God will accomplish His purposes.
Jonah 1
In Christ we are made heirs to the throne of God, justified by faith, children of promise and free from the shackles of law.
Galatians 3:15-29
The Law was Given for Blessing, but it Became a Curse
Romans 3:1-8
God is Holy, We are Sinful, He shall Judge the Nations.
Romans 2
How Does God Prevent Divine Contradiction? By Revealing His Power in the Gospel.
Romans 1
Marks of True Salvation: A New Heart, Divine Conviction and the Delight of God Alone.
Romans 2:25-29
God wants us for Himself, so He does it by Himself, for our joy, and His worship.
Psalms 23
Jews, the bearers of the law, are not exempt from the wrath of God
Romans 2:17-24
Spiritual gifts in the public assembly are for its mutual benefit and the reflection of God's character.
1 Corinthians 14:26-40
Christ, Our Master and Commander - the Anchor of Our Faith.
Matthew 8:23-27
Prayer leading to gospel-change and gospel-living in the church.
1 Timothy 2
Healthy Churches for Christ-Centred, Gospel-Hearing, Cross-Bearing Peoples.
Acts 6:1-8
No one receives pardon, all are to be judged. For those in the law, Christ's example condemns.
Romans 2:12-16
If you are good, then God shall give life; If you are bad, then God shall render destruction.
Romans 2:6-11
Come ye weary, heavy-laden, lost and ruined by the fall, if you tarry, till you're better, you will never come at all.
Romans 2:1-5
How do we stay motivated to share the gospel to the nations? We see the immensity of the grace that we first received.
Romans 1:1-7
When God gives us up to our sinfulness, it is a complete destruction of everything He originally intended.
Romans 1:28-32
What is the result when God abandons sinners? They seek pleasure in things just like themselves, which will always be insufficient.
Romans 1:26-27
God abandons those who refuse to love and obey Him, but such abandonment does not come without a hope of restoration.
Romans 1:24-25
God alone saves and justifies
Romans 1:16-17
What is the primary motivation for God's wrath against humanity, and what is man's chief sin?
Romans 1:18-23
We need to praise God for the faithfulness of gospel-centred missions, but the task is not complete. Does God call me to go? Faithful steps.
Romans 1:8-15
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God's Good in Creation Order
1 Corinthians 11:2-16
Men lead as men, women submit as women, and do it for the pleasure of God and the gospel.
#manhood
#womanhood
#creationorder
Published June 15th, 2018
Author
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Main point summary
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Main point summary
Creation order intentionally purposes the roles of men and women in the church. Men, do not dress or present yourselves in ways that symbolize that you are a woman, for to do so brings shame both on yourself and your authority, Christ. You are to remain distinct from how a woman dresses because you are her authority and are called to lead her. Women, do not neglect to fulfill your role as functionally submissive to male leadership, humble and dress yourselves in a way proper to females and distinguishable from man, because he is your authority. When you pray and/or prophesy in the church, do so in a posture that seeks to honour your male leaders. Know that your submission does not imply that you are inferior in worth, essence or being, rather, like Christ and His Father, who are equal in essence and divinity, so too are you and man, equal in God's created image and value.
Arc
editing
NT
1 Corinthians 11:2-16
esv
mine
Now I commend you
ON ONE HAND, I boast of you
a because you remember me in everything
BECAUSE as you act, you remember me
and b maintain the traditions
AND BECAUSE you continue to apply the lessons that I taught you
series
c even as I delivered them to you.
ASTOUNDINGLY, just as I taught you
situationresponse
ground
But I want you to understand
ON THE OTHER HAND, please know something you are missing
that d the head of every man is Christ,
WHAT I MEAN IS the authority of every person is Christ
e the head of a wife 1 is her husband,
AND JUST AS CHRIST IS THE AUTHORITY OF EVERY MAN, SO TOO is the husband the authority over his wife
and f the head of Christ is God.
THIS IS SIMILAR TO God's authority over Christ, not in a way that is inferior, but functional - not subordinate in essence or being, but in role
ideaexplanation
comparison
Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head,
THEREFORE, ON THE ONE HAND, every man who prays/prophesies with a head covering shames both himself (head) and his authority (head) (as this would be how a woman dresses)
but every wife 1 who prays or g prophesies h with her head uncovered dishonors her head,
ON THE OTHER HAND, when a wife/woman prophesies/prays in the public assembly without a head covering, she shames both herself (head) and her authority (head) (as this would be how a man dresses)
since it is the same i as if her head were shaven.
BECAUSE, to be without a head covering would give the appearance of looking like a man/her husband.
alternative
For if a wife will not cover her head,
FOR if a wife/woman wants to look like a man and not be submissive/humble/fill her role as a woman in the church/in the home
then she should cut her hair short.
THEN she should cut her hair short
conditional
But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair
BUT to cut your hair short would bring shame
or shave her head,
OR to shave your head would bring shame
concessive
let her cover her head.
THEREFORE, a woman/wife should cover her head.
inference
For a man ought not to cover his head,
CONVERSELY, a man ought not to cover his head
since j he is the image
BECAUSE he is the image
and glory of God,
AND glory of God
but k woman is the glory of man.
HOWEVER, Woman is to honour /submit to man, her head/authority
For l man was not made from woman,
FOR 1) creation order is not man from woman
but woman from man.
RATHER, it is woman from man
negativepositive
Neither was man created for woman,
AND 2) man wasn't made to help woman
but m woman for man.
RATHER, woman was made to help man
That is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head,
THEREFORE, woman/wife should symbolize her submission to her authority by placing a covering on her head
because of the angels. 1
BECAUSE angels are attempting to help maintain this order of creation(?) (Schreiner, pg. 127)
bilateral
Nevertheless, n in the Lord woman is not independent of man
HOWEVER, ON THE ONE HAND, in Christ, woman needs man
nor man of woman;
ON THE OTHER HAND, man needs woman
for as woman was made from man,
BECAUSE, just as woman is created from man
so man is now born of woman.
SO TOO is man now born from woman
And o all things are from God.
ADDITIONALLY, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, both men and women are from God (and thus equal in essence and value though different in roles/function)
progression
Judge for yourselves:
IN OTHER WORDS, use reason!
is it proper for a wife to pray to God with her head uncovered?
QUESTION: Should a woman/wife pray (in public assembly) without covering her head?
Does not nature itself teach you
ANSWER: look at what you know instinctively
that if a man wears long hair
WHAT I MEAN TO SAY IS, IF a man has long hair
it is a disgrace for him,
THEN he is dishonoured (does not follow creation order)
but if a woman has long hair,
CONVERSELY, IF a woman has long hair/covers her head
it is her glory ?
THEN she is honoured (follows creation order)
For her hair is given to her for a covering.
FOR the hair of a woman is meant to symbolize her submission to authority (man/husband)
questionanswer
p If anyone is inclined to be contentious,
NEVERTHELESS (BUT), IF anyone thinks that head coverings for women is isolated only to the Corinthians
we have no such practice,
THEN they should know that we follow suit (our churches mandate head coverings for women) - we are not contentious
nor do q the churches of God.
AND so do the other Christian, God-ordained churches
don't look like your husband, because you were not made like your husband, and you are particular/distinct in your role as his wife (not inferior). To dress like your husband, is to show open rebellion against the created order (to want to be/look like your husband).
One who does not conform to the role God has given him/her shames both himself and his authority (Prov 10:1; 17:25) - Schreiner, pg. 123
praying/prophesying in the public assembly - from context that these chapters = referring to public worship and next chapter has to do with Lord's Supper - these are commands of what women and men should do/dress like in public worship, the point of prophesy = to edify the church (not a private expression - 1 Cor 14:1-5; 29-33a), and 1 Cor 14:33b-36 shows that not all forms of speaking for women are prohibited in public gathering (just not teaching from the Word of God/exercising authority) - thus, women can prophesy in public, but not weigh prophesy for that would require teaching. If they do prophesy/pray in public - wear a head covering to show you are in submission and humble to male headship and it is something that separates who the women are from the men (something that looks distinct to the women).
Woman honours (glories) man, just as her hair is her honour (glory), which contrasts men and how they are dishonoured/disgraced if they grow out long hair (14b) - woman should honour man, and such honouring comes by wearing a head covering showing that man is her authority/head.
Paul wants the woman to wear a head covering because such adornment appropriately distinguishes women from men. Indeed, the focus on male headship over women in verse 3 shows that Paul wants women to wear a head covering in order to show that they are submissive to male headship (Schreiner, pg. 126).
Nature - definition - " the natural and instinctive sense of right and wrong that God has planted in us, especially with respect to sexuality" (Schreiner, pg. 128 - and his reference to how Paul uses "nature" and "teach" elsewhere, e.g. Roms 1:26-27) How you wear your hair, is indicative of your willingness to abide by creation order.
Wearing a head covering, in the context of the Corinthians, shows that women and men are inherently different (not unequally worthy). If a woman wants to prophesy or pray without looking distinct from men (or being distinct from men), then she is negating the God's intention in creation. Further, how you wear your hair signifies your willingness to abide to the created order - women have long hair, because it is distinctly feminine, and men don't have long hair, because it is to keep women distinct from you.
Fundamental principle: God's creation order has set an intentional difference in roles for men to lead in the church and family, and for women to submit and help. If women pray/prophesy in church, they should only do so under the authority/headship of men, and in proper dress so as to retain their God-given femininity. However, women are not subordinate to men in essence, being or worth (just like how Christ is subordinate in role, but not in essence or being). They are equally valued by God and equally worthy to Him in Christ (as his creation in His image). Cultural application: women, wear head coverings, and men, don't wear head coverings
discourse
Comments
Andy Hubert
THEN they should know that we follow suit (our churches mandate head coverings for women) - we are not contentious
This point is still sticky for me. In one way, it is certainly easier to understand the "custom/practice" he is speaking of to be the contentiousness, but women wearing head coverings in public worship fits the description of a "custom/practice" far better.

Did you consider the possibility that Paul might be ironically saying, "But if anyone wants to fight me on my instructions for you regarding head coverings, know that it is not actually what we practice where we are at, nor what the churches in general do. (I.e. I am merely instructing you in this because it is the accepted cultural distinction in Corinth/among you; if there is another way you would want to express this distinction, go for it.)"

Can you think of any precedent in Paul's instructions elsewhere for considering this sense?
Stephen.Choy
This was actually something I was thinking about (that Paul is saying, possibly, that they don't do this, nor do the other churches of God, but the principle of having a church that demarcates its men (and in particular, its male leaders) from its women is still necessary, and that, further, it's possible that this situation is unique to the Corinthian church(es)), but all the [limited] commentaries I read on this, do not seem to read it this way.

I was swayed by the argument simply because I am not familiar with the Greek, and because I can readily acquiesce to the logic of others who say, "we are not contentious with the Corinthians, because it is something all of us are already doing".

As to where Paul might use similar reasoning to your suggestion, I find might be in the same book/letter to the Corinthians in chapter 9:19-22 (although the passage focuses on Paul's surrendered rights to payment from the church for the sake of the gospel).  Paul says he adopts these foreign and sometimes backwards cultural practices for the sake of more effectively ministering the gospel and saving some.  My thinking here is that though these practices are not held in other parts of Christendom, they are nevertheless permissible, and maybe even encouraged, among ministers, especially for those who lead within that particular culture, so that the people there might gain salvation.

Perhaps Gal 2 can be of help as well in Paul's rebuke to Peter, but I shall digress for now to think on it more.  Again, I welcome your interjections, thoughts, admonitions and challenges in the interim.
Andy Hubert
BECAUSE angels are attempting to help maintain this order of creation(?) (Schreiner, pg. 127)
Clearly you are relying on a book from Schreiner for much of your arc. Which book are you referring to?

Also, would you mind expanding Schreiner's thought here a little? I see you are not 100% convinced by it given your question mark, but nonetheless it would be helpful for my consideration.
Stephen.Choy
I'm referring to Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood (eds. Piper and Grudem) - chapter 5 - essay by Prof. Schreiner - I am also referring to a couple of other online articles, but the most persuasive and most relied on for/by me was Prof. Schreiner's paper. 

I think that this particular proposition took me the longest to paraphrase.  One of the reasons for this is because Prof. Schreiner, himself, does not give an in depth explanation of this passage. It is almost something he explains in passing, and his reason for his short explanation is that it's uncertain (even to a scholar like him) what truly Paul meant here.

In my mind, the way I originally thought of this passage is that Paul is [almost] making a comparison here between women and angels (that is the woman's submission to man, is similar to the angel's submission to God), but the more I thought of this, the less okay with it I became, because he's already made this comparison for us in verse 3 but to in a more foundational way (woman to man is like Christ to God).

So, by inference, it seems like the inclusion of the angels in this passage is to highlight that they are doing something, rather than being compared to something.  The only thing I could come up with, likened with Prof. Schreiner's explanation, is that they are trying to help us uphold and restore this creation order, which was corrupted by humans.

If you want, I can probably expand on this even more, but for the sake of not overburdening you, I think I'll pause here.
Andy Hubert
First off, let me encourage you for how God has chosen to use you to  speak to me. A brother and I have been struggling through this passage for several days during a daily devotional time we have together. We had not yet turned to commentaries, but simply were wrestling through the Greek and logical flow via an arc. As is true for many, we have been pretty baffled, though have been trusting the Lord to provide insight as we persevere.

As I opened my computer a couple days ago to continue working on this text, I noticed that there were a few new published pages needing approval. That is, I just needed to make sure that there was nothing profane in them before they are fully published. I typically spend all of one second per page I am approving, often not even taking note to which scripture text is used. However, this time, before clicking to look at the pages, the thought went through my head, "I wonder if God might help me out with 1Cor 11:2-16 through one of these pages." Understand, I don't recall any thought of this sort ever going through my mind with regard to approving published pages—I normally do it just robotically. But this time, I did think such a thing, and your arc was the first the pop up. Thus, you (and God) had my attention!!

And your arc is really helpful, particularly your accompanying paraphrase. It has been a great aid to me in seeing how all the pieces of this text can fit together. I will comment on a couple specifics in separate comments, but first wanted to share this general, thankful sentiment.
Stephen.Choy
Thank you for your kind and encouraging words! Quite honestly, I posted this arc because it is something that I and my church (or some people in our church) are currently grappling with as well.  I am encouraged (even more so), because of how God's sovereignty seek to unify His church all over the world through His Word!

I also want to thank you because, while I completed your arcing course via audit, it has been such a blessing to me! I am constantly astounded at how God has used you not only to build this website (and your team, if you have a team), but also how you continue to use it to disciple people all across the world.  God Bless you and your ministry!

To be very very honest, and as you noticed in your other comment, much of my arc was aided by my personal study not only of the text, but of what other people have said, particularly the essay from Prof. Schreiner in Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood (eds. Piper and Grudem).  I also have to admit that because of the informal setting in which I am studying this passage, my citations are incomplete (and not fully reflective of what I've read).  So I thank you for your patience and encouragement despite the obvious failings of the arc (and the paraphrasing/notes therein).

As I have not had your personal reflections, encouragements and discipleship, I welcome anything and everything you have to say about what you see here!  It is a deep privilege for me to hear your wisdom on these things.

Thank you!
Disclaimer: The opinions and conclusions expressed on this page are those of the author and may or may not accord with the positions of Biblearc or Bethlehem College & Seminary.