notes

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notes 1452680585565 Disclaimer This page was automatically converted from a module that was shared prior to the release of Published Pages. Additionally, the arc below was auto-converted from the arc created by the author (which used the old module), and so it is possible there are misplaced logical relationships.

Notes

2009-05-26 10:42:54

2009-06-02 16:12:53

--Vv.3-6 seem to say that God will either graciously permit us to press on to maturity (v.1b), or we will end up falling away, unable to repent (like Esau?--Heb 12:15-17). Whether those who fall away were ever truly regenerate is one of our main concerns in considering this passage. -- The reasons I have hesitated to say the apostate people in question were not genuine believers are as follows: a) Compare "...have once been enlightened" in v.4a with 2nd Corinthians 4:4-6 (light of glory of Ch rist in the gospel shining in the heart, etc.) However, I should look up the Greek definitions and compare the words in the two passages...I should also compare with ideas in Hebrews 10:26, 29. b) Compare "been made partakers of the Holy Spirit" in v.4c with Hebrews 3:14 "For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end." So similar language to Heb 6 is used of those who are surely regenerate in Heb 3. Interesting, though, that 3:14 pretty clearly seems to teach eternal security (along with much of the rest of Hebrews, I might add). Also, similar Greek word for "partaker" is used of both strong and weak acquaintances throughout the NT, according to Wayne Grudem. c) In v.6b, "renew them again to repentance" suggests that the apostate were previously repentant--is it possible that an unregenerate person can repent in any meaningful sense? Can it mean a merely outward look of repentance in conformity with the church community? The greek "metanoia" means "change of mind." But it remains possible that there is a kind of non-salvific "repentance" or remorse (same Gk word), like Judas in Matthew 27, that is in view. --According to v.6, the ground for the impossibility of renewing the apostate to repentance is that they "again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame." Exactly what this means and how this works is the other main question/concern we have with this passage. Since vv.7-8 are the ground of vv.4-6, we should look to vv.7-8 for our interpretation. Perhaps also compare with Heb 10:26, 29. --The ground that is "close to being cursed and ends up being burned" is not described as having ever born any useful vegetation--only thorns and thistles. Surely genuine believers would bear some fruit before they fall away (if it is indeed possible for them to fall away). This suggests fairly strongly that the people in question were never regenerate. --The first part of v.9 seems to confirm that the apostate were never regenerate, for "things that accompany salvation" likely refers to the "useful vegetation" of v.7b, which is contrasted with the thorn- and thistle-bearers--who are obviously parallel to the apostate. This suggests there was no salvation with the apostate to begin with. (see John 15:5-8, esp. v.8) --However, "though we are speaking in this way" at the end of v.9 suggests the possibility of an interpretation that deals with this passage as some kind of hypothetical apostasy of regenerate believers, which perhaps should not be reified. R.C. Sproul takes this position. However, it seems that the purpose of the passage would become more elusive if this option were affirmed. Reversal of thought flow from v.8 back through v.1 --Ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth useful vegetation will be blessed, and ground that drinks that same rain and brings forth thorns and thistles will be "close to being cursed" (?) and will be burned. Therefore, it is impossible for those who drink the rain of the heavenly gift, partake of the Holy Spirit, taste the good word of God and the power of the age to come, and then fall away, to be renewed to repentance. This is because they have brought forth the thorns and thistles of "re-crucifying to themselves the Son of God and putting Him to open shame." Therefore, if God permits, we will press on to maturity (and not continue having to re-learn foundational doctrine.)-- Also, I wonder if considering the fact that the audience of the letter is Hebrew believers could affect interpretation of this passage.

10000000008387 8387 Notes 2009-05-26 10:42:54 2009-06-02 16:12:53 --Vv.3-6 seem to say that God will either graciously permit us to press on to maturity (v.1b), or we will end up falling away, unable to repent (like Esau?--Heb 12:15-17). Whether those who fall away were ever truly regenerate is one of our main concerns in considering this passage. -- The reasons I have hesitated to say the apostate people in question were not genuine believers are as follows: a) Compare "...have once been enlightened" in v.4a with 2nd Corinthians 4:4-6 (light of glory of Ch rist in the gospel shining in the heart, etc.) However, I should look up the Greek definitions and compare the words in the two passages...I should also compare with ideas in Hebrews 10:26, 29. b) Compare "been made partakers of the Holy Spirit" in v.4c with Hebrews 3:14 "For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end." So similar language to Heb 6 is used of those who are surely regenerate in Heb 3. Interesting, though, that 3:14 pretty clearly seems to teach eternal security (along with much of the rest of Hebrews, I might add). Also, similar Greek word for "partaker" is used of both strong and weak acquaintances throughout the NT, according to Wayne Grudem. c) In v.6b, "renew them again to repentance" suggests that the apostate were previously repentant--is it possible that an unregenerate person can repent in any meaningful sense? Can it mean a merely outward look of repentance in conformity with the church community? The greek "metanoia" means "change of mind." But it remains possible that there is a kind of non-salvific "repentance" or remorse (same Gk word), like Judas in Matthew 27, that is in view. --According to v.6, the ground for the impossibility of renewing the apostate to repentance is that they "again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame." Exactly what this means and how this works is the other main question/concern we have with this passage. Since vv.7-8 are the ground of vv.4-6, we should look to vv.7-8 for our interpretation. Perhaps also compare with Heb 10:26, 29. --The ground that is "close to being cursed and ends up being burned" is not described as having ever born any useful vegetation--only thorns and thistles. Surely genuine believers would bear some fruit before they fall away (if it is indeed possible for them to fall away). This suggests fairly strongly that the people in question were never regenerate. --The first part of v.9 seems to confirm that the apostate were never regenerate, for "things that accompany salvation" likely refers to the "useful vegetation" of v.7b, which is contrasted with the thorn- and thistle-bearers--who are obviously parallel to the apostate. This suggests there was no salvation with the apostate to begin with. (see John 15:5-8, esp. v.8) --However, "though we are speaking in this way" at the end of v.9 suggests the possibility of an interpretation that deals with this passage as some kind of hypothetical apostasy of regenerate believers, which perhaps should not be reified. R.C. Sproul takes this position. However, it seems that the purpose of the passage would become more elusive if this option were affirmed. Reversal of thought flow from v.8 back through v.1 --Ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth useful vegetation will be blessed, and ground that drinks that same rain and brings forth thorns and thistles will be "close to being cursed" (?) and will be burned. Therefore, it is impossible for those who drink the rain of the heavenly gift, partake of the Holy Spirit, taste the good word of God and the power of the age to come, and then fall away, to be renewed to repentance. This is because they have brought forth the thorns and thistles of "re-crucifying to themselves the Son of God and putting Him to open shame." Therefore, if God permits, we will press on to maturity (and not continue having to re-learn foundational doctrine.)-- Also, I wonder if considering the fact that the audience of the letter is Hebrew believers could affect interpretation of this passage. notes

Arc

2009-05-26 10:42:54

2009-06-02 16:12:53

editing

Hebrews

Hebrews 6:1-9

NT

nasb

Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ,

let us press on to maturity,

actionmanner

not laying again a foundation

of repentance from dead works

and of faith toward God,

of instruction about washings

and laying on of hands,

and the resurrection of the dead

and eternal judgment.

series

ideaexplanation

And this we will do,

if God permits.

For in the case of those who have once been enlightened

and have tasted of the heavenly gift

and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

and have tasted the good word of God

and the powers of the age to come,

and then have fallen away,

it is impossible to renew them again to repentance,

since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God

and put Him to open shame.

ground

actionresult

For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it

and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled,

receives a blessing from God;

but if it yields thorns

and thistles,

alternative

it is worthless

and close to being cursed,

and it ends up being burned.

But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you,

and things that accompany salvation,

though we are speaking in this way.

discourse

10000000008387 8387 Arc 2009-05-26 10:42:54 2009-06-02 16:12:53 editing Hebrews 6 1 6 9 Hebrews 6:1-9 58 NT nasb i69037 i69038 i69039 i69006 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, i69007 let us press on to maturity, actionmanner 1 1 i69040 i69008 not laying again a foundation i69041 i69009 of repentance from dead works i69010 and of faith toward God, i69011 of instruction about washings i69012 and laying on of hands, i69013 and the resurrection of the dead i69014 and eternal judgment. series ideaexplanation 1 i69015 And this we will do, i69016 if God permits. i69042 i69043 i69017 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened i69018 and have tasted of the heavenly gift i69019 and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, i69044 i69020 and have tasted the good word of God i69021 and the powers of the age to come, series i69022 and then have fallen away, i69045 i69023 it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, i69046 i69024 since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God i69025 and put Him to open shame. series ground 1 actionresult 2 i69047 i69048 i69049 i69026 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it i69027 and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, series i69028 receives a blessing from God; actionresult 2 i69050 i69051 i69029 but if it yields thorns i69030 and thistles, alternative i69052 i69031 it is worthless i69032 and close to being cursed, i69033 and it ends up being burned. alternative series ground 1 i69053 i69034 But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, i69035 and things that accompany salvation, i69036 though we are speaking in this way. series 1 1 1 nasb 25 a 50 discourse