Judgement before Reign
Revelation 19:15
I made this ark because I wanted to think about the amillenialist arguments against premillenialism ...
Published June 1st, 2012
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This page was automatically converted from a module that was shared prior to the release of Published Pages. Additionally, the arc below was auto-converted from the arc created by the author (which used the old module), and so it is possible there are misplaced logical relationships.
notes 1452680588039 Disclaimer This page was automatically converted from a module that was shared prior to the release of Published Pages. Additionally, the arc below was auto-converted from the arc created by the author (which used the old module), and so it is possible there are misplaced logical relationships.
Notes
2011-03-07 18:19:21
2012-06-05 14:50:36
I made this ark because I wanted to think about the amillenialist arguments against premillenialism that chapter 20 in the book of Revelation is a mere parallelism to chapter 19. I think the progression from striking the nations to ruling over the nations is very clear in this verse. Like any other conqueror he will come, kill all those, who do not submit to him and afterwards rule over those, who are left. This is what God's judgement will look like. Not all people are killed (I've tried to argue against Storm's argument for the contrary in more detail in another arc on Revelation 19:19-21), for if all the people on the earth would be killed, there would be no one left to be ruled over. Some might argue that Christ would reign in a spiritual way, but to me the most natural reading of the text suggests that he will come to the earth , kill some people and then rule over the rest. Otherwise we would have to assume that the killing likewise is taking place in some kind of spiritual manner, which would make everything only more complicated because just a few verses later there is an explicit difference in the way the judgement of the prophet and the beast on one hand (lake of fire) and the people on the other hand (killed and flesh eaten by birds) is described. The verse says that he will strike the nations and will rule over the nations. The striking is anounced by an angel in verse 17 and executed in verse 21 right after God's judgement against the prophet and the beast (I have another arc for verses 19-21). The ruling must consequently refer to what follows in chapter 20. The nations that Christ will strike are the same nations that he will rule over. Some have argued that chapter 20 is just a parallel to chapter 19 (I don't believe anyone would come to think like that without the chapter divisions.). In 19:15 we are told about the striking and reigning, the striking is described in detail a few verses afterwards and in chapter 20 the reigning and what follows is described in detail, too. It is therefore totally natural to regard chapter 20 as the continuation of chapter 20 and not as a repetition. The following facts exclude any possibility of a mere parallelism between chapters 19 and 20: 1. The text flows very naturaly from one event to the next. There are anouncements of events which subsequently are described in detail 2. There are direct back references from one chapter to the other (20:10 refers back to 19:20; 20:4 refers back to 19:15 3. 20:4 says that the martyrs from the beast's reign became alive. We have to insist on the fact that they must have become alive in the same sense they died through the beast's persecution. Otherwise the whole text becomes a victicm of human arbitrariness. This observation excludes any notion of Christians reigning after their death in heaven and leads us to the natural understanding that after the beast was put into the lake of fire Christ resurrects those who were killed by this beast and reigns with them instead of the beast reigning. 4. It doesn't make any sense to assume that the beast might be reigning on earth and the saints in heaven during the binding of Satan. How could there be the beast, which got it's power from the dragon (Rev 13:4) reigning on the earth while the very dragon which gave it its power is shut away? 5. It is often asserted that Satan's binding only means that he can not stop the proclamation of the Gospel on the earth. I don't find this to be persuasive because the phrase "deceive the nations" sounds like something Satan would be doing in the hearts of the people of the nations. If we believe that Satan stopped this deceiving after Christ's death then we must assume that he was doing it all day long until Christ's death. But how did he hinder the proclamation of the gospel for instance to the Japanese people before Christ died? Was the only reason why the Japanese people did not believe the Gospel the fact that Satan deceived them? The simple answer is that he didn't stop the proclamation of the Gospel because there was no reason to do it because God did not command any proclamation of the Gospel to the nations before the New Testament times.
10000000070670 70670 Notes 2011-03-07 18:19:21 2012-06-05 14:50:36 I made this ark because I wanted to think about the amillenialist arguments against premillenialism that chapter 20 in the book of Revelation is a mere parallelism to chapter 19. I think the progression from striking the nations to ruling over the nations is very clear in this verse. Like any other conqueror he will come, kill all those, who do not submit to him and afterwards rule over those, who are left. This is what God's judgement will look like. Not all people are killed (I've tried to argue against Storm's argument for the contrary in more detail in another arc on Revelation 19:19-21), for if all the people on the earth would be killed, there would be no one left to be ruled over. Some might argue that Christ would reign in a spiritual way, but to me the most natural reading of the text suggests that he will come to the earth , kill some people and then rule over the rest. Otherwise we would have to assume that the killing likewise is taking place in some kind of spiritual manner, which would make everything only more complicated because just a few verses later there is an explicit difference in the way the judgement of the prophet and the beast on one hand (lake of fire) and the people on the other hand (killed and flesh eaten by birds) is described. The verse says that he will strike the nations and will rule over the nations. The striking is anounced by an angel in verse 17 and executed in verse 21 right after God's judgement against the prophet and the beast (I have another arc for verses 19-21). The ruling must consequently refer to what follows in chapter 20. The nations that Christ will strike are the same nations that he will rule over. Some have argued that chapter 20 is just a parallel to chapter 19 (I don't believe anyone would come to think like that without the chapter divisions.). In 19:15 we are told about the striking and reigning, the striking is described in detail a few verses afterwards and in chapter 20 the reigning and what follows is described in detail, too. It is therefore totally natural to regard chapter 20 as the continuation of chapter 20 and not as a repetition. The following facts exclude any possibility of a mere parallelism between chapters 19 and 20: 1. The text flows very naturaly from one event to the next. There are anouncements of events which subsequently are described in detail 2. There are direct back references from one chapter to the other (20:10 refers back to 19:20; 20:4 refers back to 19:15 3. 20:4 says that the martyrs from the beast's reign became alive. We have to insist on the fact that they must have become alive in the same sense they died through the beast's persecution. Otherwise the whole text becomes a victicm of human arbitrariness. This observation excludes any notion of Christians reigning after their death in heaven and leads us to the natural understanding that after the beast was put into the lake of fire Christ resurrects those who were killed by this beast and reigns with them instead of the beast reigning. 4. It doesn't make any sense to assume that the beast might be reigning on earth and the saints in heaven during the binding of Satan. How could there be the beast, which got it's power from the dragon (Rev 13:4) reigning on the earth while the very dragon which gave it its power is shut away? 5. It is often asserted that Satan's binding only means that he can not stop the proclamation of the Gospel on the earth. I don't find this to be persuasive because the phrase "deceive the nations" sounds like something Satan would be doing in the hearts of the people of the nations. If we believe that Satan stopped this deceiving after Christ's death then we must assume that he was doing it all day long until Christ's death. But how did he hinder the proclamation of the gospel for instance to the Japanese people before Christ died? Was the only reason why the Japanese people did not believe the Gospel the fact that Satan deceived them? The simple answer is that he didn't stop the proclamation of the Gospel because there was no reason to do it because God did not command any proclamation of the Gospel to the nations before the New Testament times. notes
Arc
2011-03-07 18:19:21
2012-07-01 21:21:50
editing
Revelation
Revelation 19:15
NT
tisch
esv
καὶ ἐκ τοῦ στόματος αὐτοῦ ἐκπορεύεται ῥομφαία ὀξεῖα,
From his mouth comes a sharp sword
ἵνα ἐν αὐτῇ πατάξῃ τὰ ἔθνη,
with which to strike down the nations,
actionpurpose
καὶ αὐτὸς ποιμανεῖ αὐτοὺς ἐν ῥάβδῳ σιδηρᾷ·
and he will rule them with a rod of iron.
progression
καὶ αὐτὸς πατεῖ τὴν ληνὸν τοῦ οἴνου τοῦ θυμοῦ τῆς ὀργῆς τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ παντοκράτορος.
He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.
ideaexplanation
discourse
10000000070670 70670 Arc 2011-03-07 18:19:21 2012-07-01 21:21:50 editing Revelation 19 15 19 15 Revelation 19:15 66 NT tisch esv i649143 i649144 i649145 i649139 καὶ ἐκ τοῦ στόματος αὐτοῦ ἐκπορεύεται ῥομφαία ὀξεῖα, From his mouth comes a sharp sword i649140 ἵνα ἐν αὐτῇ πατάξῃ τὰ ἔθνη, with which to strike down the nations, actionpurpose 2 i649141 καὶ αὐτὸς ποιμανεῖ αὐτοὺς ἐν ῥάβδῳ σιδηρᾷ· and he will rule them with a rod of iron. progression i649142 καὶ αὐτὸς πατεῖ τὴν ληνὸν τοῦ οἴνου τοῦ θυμοῦ τῆς ὀργῆς τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ παντοκράτορος. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. ideaexplanation 1 1 1 1 1 tisch 25 esv 25 a 50 discourse
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